Forum Activity for @noah-cline

I read this discussion the other week. I just came across this 23” scale Capritaurus on eBay and thought I might share. I have no affiliation with the seller. Might be a good candidate, though I really don’t have much experience with other dulcimer makes besides my own builds. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAPRITAURUS-DULCIMER-23-VSL-MINT-/125190762801?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

The correct term is arch.  Not scoop or scallop.   That's why you didn't find anything.  You can have an "arched" fretboard.   The purpose of arches is two-fold. 

First, they remove a great deal of the overall mass (weight) of the fretboard -- makes the whole thing lighter and more responsive while still maintaining the rigidity of the fretboard for proper fret spacing.   

Second, arching frees up some small additional part of the dulcimer top to allow it to vibrate more freely.  Vibration is of course what causes the sound. Dulcimers do not produce sound in quite the same way as guitars, mandolins, banjos, etc. 

Because of the massive brace (called the fretboard) down the length of the top, very little top vibration is even possible.  The majority of the sound comes from the vibration of the back and sides -- even though we most often bury the bottom in our sound absorbing laps.  This is why a Galax-style double back instrument gives so much more sound than a single back instrument -- the entire back is free to vibrate.

Are arches necessary?  No.  The majority of dulcimers are built with solid or channeled fretboards. 
 
Are arches useful?  Certainly. Any time an oscilloscope can measure an increase in sound production, it's a net gain.

Are arches æsthetically pleasing?  Heck yes!  I even built one dulcemore with the size and spacing of the arches matching the size and spacing of the frets.

"Scoops" (scallops) are not necessary to get good sound or volume from a dulcimer.  Some people just like them and think they improve the sound of the dulcimer. Scallops free up the soundboard because the fretboard only contacts the soundboard in a few small areas. Some builders will also channel-out the center of the fretboard as well, to create even smaller contact areas.

Do I scallop my dulcimer fretboards?  Nope-- never have.  But I DO channel them, almost every time. Some Tennessee music boxes have "false scallops" on the sides of their fretboards, but they're just notches for decoration -- they don't go all the way through the fretboard.

Thank you gentlemen. Skip is right, I know what the music sounds like. And the recording ability of my phone should be good enough. I am just archiving at this point in time.

I'm the new guy with the steep learning curve.  I did a forum search for "fret board scoops" and found nothing.  So, my question... What is the purpose of the "scoop" in fret boards?  Are they necessary? 

As Skip sez, you don't need concert hall audio quality at this point.  A free audio recorder app on your phone is more than adequate to trigger your memory for what a tune sounds like.  

I wouldn't worry about 'audio quality' right now [you already know what it sounds like], you're just trying to archive the tune.

I need the note values (or at least think I do) because from day to day when I play (sometimes), things sound not quite right and it takes me a bit to remember the way a piece is supposed to be. I am working with a mild to moderate aphasia,  Memory and recollection just ain't what they used to be.

Agreed on the recordings. But until I get a decent mic to use with my laptop, any recording has close to zero audio quality.

Definitions,,,

Fingerpicking is one way of playing the notes of a tune.  You can also strum or bow the string to sound the notes.

Fretting is choosing which notes to play  -- either fretting single notes on the melody string (Noter & Drone or Finger dancing) while the other strings drone;  or fretting any or all strings to create chords.

Question -- if you have your "finger positions copied down"  why do you need to assign note values?  99.9% of dulcimer players are accustomed to playing from "tabulature" -- three line number sequences showing which string to fret when -- rather than the half/whole/quarter notes of Standard Music Notation?  Everyone who creates tab has their own method of indicating time -- dots between numbers, long and short spaces between numbers, etc.  Simple recordings of your compositions would seem to be the easiestway to recall "how to play" a given tune.  

I am playing by finger picking. While I do 'fret' chords, I might play any one string and/or move up or down a fret or two as the melody dictates. The one-and-two-and suggestions are excellent. See, I am coming at the playing in a strange manner. I am recovering from a pretty massive stroke. I had the true luck of OLYMPUS, because I am not drooling on thee floor in a corner someplace. I have been truly Blessed. It is hard for me to ;earn songs, but strangely, 'composing' is much easier. Whether there is any good coming of the writing is yet to be determined. Certainly not by me, eh?

The ideas I am getting here are pure gold to me.

If you have, and can mostly use, either program you can try entering the note name and matching that with the approximate count of the length of the note played. Just enter the notes/matching count length and see what the app does. Probably use a count of 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and for normal [4/4] [each count is an 1/8th note, 1-and = a 1/4 note] or '1-and-2-and-3-and' for a waltz beat [3/4].

Are you playing Chord-Melody style across all the strings, or just working out a tune on the melody string?  Either way, there are tables which tell you what note each fret has in each tuning.  One to check out is the Strothers Chord Wizard -- Tom & Missy Strothers | Diatonic Chords   to help you figure out wht is what.

~L~ No music background here either. Just about enough to see 'notation' and suss out the time. Desperately trying to remedy that. Then maybe punch it into TablEdit or Musescore and see how the playback sounds. TablEdit will do the work with a "MIDI" input device. That may also require a licensed version and money is just too tight to do that right now.

But I do like the 'counting along' idea, thank you very much.

I have absolutely no background in writing music, but, I think your 1st step is to make 2-3 recordings. then determine the average note length, just counting 1-2-3-4  or 1-2-3, 1 and 2 and 3 and, etc., You're working backwards plan. You may be able to make a rough guess by counting as you play. Then see if you can find a timing pattern to fit 3/4, 4/4 etc., to set up the measures. I think using a metronome may be too restrictive.

I have a couple pretty nice, mid but not completely top-shelf acoustic martin guitars, and love those.  This instrument will cost more than those each did by a few to several hundred, and it sort of surprises me I chose to spend more on this instrument rather than a guitar, my primary stringed instrument.  But, thinking there the production level of a large company like Martin makes good instruments available at the mid price point, even more so than I would expect the lower volume dulcimer makers.  So thinking it will be worth it.  My current dulcimer, pictured, is a nice little dulcimer, and will either be passed to someone else, or I will keep it as an alternate dulcimer travel where I am concerned about conditions or theft, or whatever, and it does not have the extra frets to make it chromatic, so might be interesting to play with it in a more traditional (not completely, as it has a couple of the “extras”) way. 

Ah, wonderful, @sunvalleylaw!  

I haven't decided what classes to view yet know I can't make a bad choice.  Fortunately, I was able to attend a portion of the Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming in '15 and it was a wonderfully memorable experience.  

Ok, I registered!  Thanks for pointing it out.  Interested in Joellen’s stuff on strumming and alternate tunings, and saw something on fiddle tunes that looks interesting as I know how to play a little beginner flat picking fiddle tune stuff on guitar.  Cool!

I have been doing a bit of original/creative things and I use a "notation-tab" sheet from Folkcraft. (Excellent product, I highly recommend)

While I have finger positions copied down, I am still relying on memory the be able to go back and play them.

I need to assign note values. Any ideas, suggestions or 'son, yer on yer own...', thoughts?

Maybe use a metronome and work backwards?

Well done!  There’s much to be said in the quality of a string instrument.

ENJOY!

Thank you!  And will do!  I have no stock picks to show, as it will be its own thing, but was going for this sort of vibe, but as an AJ, will be just slightly larger.  

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Wow, cool!  Thanks for that!  In the limited learning regarding technique I have done so far, it has been sort of in a Joni style, using a guitar pick, and a percussive type of stroke.  Kinda guitar oriented in the mechanics, but on a different plane than an guitar with the strings oriented away from the body.  I am a long time guitar hack so that feels natural for me. @robin-thompson Hard to describe other than that for me.  Tim Hanseroth has a little video of him woodshedding his part on All I Want on Instagram, but I cannot figure out a way to share it here.  His nice, compact wrist action, without too much elbow, keeping it in time back and forth across the fretboard is what I am shooting for.  Not that I have that down in any way.  ;)

Will be interested in that lesson if the timing works out!  I have Joellen’s book too!

The Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming is coming up soon!  It looks to be a great fest and can be attended from the comfort of your own place.  I inquired as to whether one could sit in on a class just as a listener-- this is how I absorb information best-- and was assured it wold be fine.  

@sunvalleylaw, you will enjoy your Blue Lion!  And, yes, Janita is great to work with.    

I'm not a great player so measuring whether my skills were good enough to own a BL wouldn't have worked for me.  Yet I own two and enjoy them ever so much.   

In a couple weeks, Joellen Lapidus is going to be teaching online at the free Hindman Dulcimer Homecoming and will, I think, be teaching a percussive technique with the mountain dulcimer.  Information for "attending" the fest can be found here:

https://troublesomecreekguitars.com/2022-hindman-dulcimer-homecoming/  

Awesome, be sure to post pics when it's done. You deserve it!

I probably am not good enough to have done so, but ordered a nice one.  Blue Lion, AJ (Acoustic Jam) size, Redwood back and sides, spruce top, redwood fingerboard, Scroll head, strung with 4 strings in 3 positions, but with nuts cut to go equidistant if I ever wanted to, Strings attach with acoustic guitar style pegs and holes in the bridge, rather than on metal pegs on the end, fretboard will be Chromatic, LR Baggs pick up, Heart/F style sound holes, gloss finish. Janita has been amazing throughout the shopping and ordering process.  

Will be used in folk/folk rock music played in a somewhat percussive way, Ala Joni, I having been originally inspired by Tim Hanseroth of Brandi Carlile Band covering Joni’s “All I Want.”  

Again, probably too expensive given my skill set, but receiving a little inheritance allowed me to spend on something nice for my arty side. And I may consolidate some other gear/sell some stuff I am not using, also.   And I think my Mom (and Dad, having been gone nearly 11 years now) would be fine with that.  

Should be ready in about 4 or 4 and a half months.  

Honestly, Richard, if I knew what I was buying I would have gladly paid way more for it. ;-)

What a wonderful find Canadian Dulcimer Boy. Enjoy playing your find.

Hi Lois, if/when I buy a new super deluxe dulcimer, I will certainly be sharing my original find. ;-)

Oh my, Dulcimer Boy, your journey to loving dulcimers sounds so much like my own.  Had even said it was an instrument I'd skip since I, too, have a background with others.  Found what I call "the Orphan" & the rest followed.  I'm always willing to loan it to a beginner nearby since I now have several, including Tennessee Music Boxes.  (Like John Knopf I'm in that trick area north of the Ontario border.)

Thanks, John, Robin, Dusty. :-)

Thanks.  It appears dulcimer construction has a lot in common with banjo building...  You never know exactly what tone you'll be getting out of your choice of woods, design, hardware, strings and any number of other variables.  It's the combination of all the variables that determines tone.  In other words, it's like a box of chocolates.  Thanks again! 

As Ken says, it depends on who you talk to.  The idea is, more or less, to free up more top to vibrate and also reduce the overall mass of the fretboard, thus enhancing the sound.  Some of us arch the fretboard, many more of us cut a channel down the length of the inside of the fretboard.  Both work, or or less, depending on the impact of the many other design variables.  "Ya pays yer money an ya takes yer chances".

Welcome to our little group, eh? from a dulcimer/dulcimore builder north of the Ontario border (suburban Detroit).  

We hope you'll have fun and learn some things from us.  That's a nice find you have there! Thanks for letting us know.

Good to have you here, @canadian-dulcimer-boy!  Enjoy that new-to-you mountain dulcimer!  

Welcome to FOTMD, @canadian-dulcimer-boy, and congratulations on your find.  The best dulcimer journeys begin with a unique discovery like yours.

Hi Folks, I stumbled upon a weird wooden instrument covered in dust, with a couple of old, floppy strings in an antique shop in Ontario, Canada. I was told it was a dulcimer and the shop keep said it was going for $40. I snatched it up in a heartbeat. I hade no idea what a treasure I had until I cleaned it up, put on some fresh strings and headed to Youtube to find out how to play it. (I already play bass, uke and a bit of guitar/banjo so my learning curve wasn’t too steep.) Anywhoooo…I’m in love with this instrument. I look forward to leaning from you all and sharing some tunes with ya

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Well, it depends on who responds. The theory is that with less contact with the fret board, the top is freer to vibrated thus enhancing the sound. There are so many variables to what effects the sound of the dulcimer and this is just one of many.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

So happy you had a great experience  and it turned out beautiful  for you. I had one of his years ago, a Birdseye Maple. It was very pretty, but the intonation  was off up the fretboard. My Luther did his best to correct it, but it still wasn't right. I parted ways with it. I probably just got a bad one, because so many people are happy with Ron's dulcimers.  I have another builder lined up, but thanks.

Enjoy your gem!

Is there an advantage to fret boards that are scalloped on the bottom so they only contact the instrument's top at a few points?  

Susie, I can't recommend Ron enough. Very good to work with and talented.  Megan, Thank you so much!